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CS Points, Equality for All

5 posters

Which idea do you like the best to give everyone equal CS?

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Total Votes : 10


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1CS Points, Equality for All Empty CS Points, Equality for All Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:28 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

I've noticed that there is a advantage for being a Genin its that you can get a total of 12 or 14 CS points when you reach S rank, which can be done in one topic as I have done this myself. While a kage can only have 8 or 10 CS points at max. To me this makes no sense, everyone should be able to attain the same amount of CS points.

The problems steams from each time you rank up you gain 2 points.
A Genin at D rank starts with 4 or 6
Genin Ranks Up
6/8 CS at C  <--- Already at Jounin
Ranks up
8/10 CS at B <---already at Kage
Ranks Up
A 10/12 CS
Ranks Up
S 12/14 CS

A Jounin Counter part

Starts a A with 6 or 8 points
Ranks Up
Now has 8 or 10 CS points

Ways to fix this
Option 1~Ranking up gives you a certain amount at each rank
EX: D-C = 0 points C-B = 1 point B-A = 1 point A-S = 2 points. This makes everyone capable of getting the same amount of CS

Option 2~You could make it to where Jounin have to achieve the same things a Genin does to rank up and when they do that a Jounin doesn't rank up but instead they gain 2 CS points they can do this until they reach 12 points as the max for the A rank could be 12.

Option 3~You can simply buy CS points until you reach the max for each rank which would be defined by the max that someone who started as a D rank Genin at that rank.
D = 6
C = 8
B = 10
A = 12
S = 14

*Note I add in the 2 points you can get from not having a element and not being in a clan.

2CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:43 am

Demon of the Mist

Demon of the Mist
Kiri Anbu Captain
Kiri Anbu Captain

Well Ideally we would just drop the CS system. Because there a lot of other problems. There have been many suggestions. But no new system has ever been discussed in depth or review by current site owner.

3CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:45 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

I'm fine with it, its better then most systems I've seen. Really the problem stems from having ranks. Ranks are pointless and should be abolished. It limits complexity and depth, imo.

My real problem with the CS system is that a Chuunin can be more powerful then a Kage in mastery and skill........which is like dumb...seriously dumb. Anyone who is high ranking to start gets a finger in the butt.

4CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:18 am

Kaiden

Kaiden
Kiri Chunin
Kiri Chunin

I'm sorry that I don't see much point behind your reasoning. While the CS system is a bit faulty none of your options please me. In my opinion I like the system a bit. People that start as genin should have some perks for all of their hard work.

With all of that talked about I have my own though on how to fix this.

Secret Option 4 - People should only have a set amount of CS to get. Right now genin all ranked up ARE OP. They should get a bonus, but not be so trained. I think depending on your rank you should only be able to rank up CS to a certain point. Meaning you can't master ALL the combat skills. After all no person would be great at EVERYTHING.

D - up to 2 adepts, no mastery (4-6 points)
C - May have 1 mastery at most (5-8 points)
B - Able to have 2 skills mastered(6-10)
A - Now allowed up to 3 skills mastered (7-12)
S - With the time they have had to focus on their skills these shinobi are allowed up to 4 skills mastered (8-14)

[While the above might not have enough points to get to that many skills mastered they would be able to gain more points cause of the title system]

5CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:22 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

Not a bad idea! I would add it in but I can't now lol.

6CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:53 pm

CrypticWater

CrypticWater
Konoha Genin
Konoha Genin

Hello, I've only been here for the last couple of days but after reading this topic I thought I'd throw in my own two cents. One thing I'll say that drew both myself and my friend (Valkyrie) here is the CS system. It's very unique from what I've seen offered on other RP sites and allows for a great degree of freedom in how one can construct their character. Both Valkyrie and I came from a site that was very rigid in the combat specialties one could have and while that helped keep a bit of order, it was ultimately less fun as many people seemed to pick the same specialties and were too scared of being underpowered to try out different combinations. The way it's done here is simple and the benefits are tangible and that's what I personally love.

As for the Skill points, I did notice the problem that Fumiko brought up but had shrugged it off, figuring that the idea was that the site was awarding those who chose to make a genin and fully develop them into S rank ninja. I'm not sure if the site Mods and Admins looked at Kaiden's solution but it seems very similar to what is already on the combat system's page:

Sato wrote:
New Information::


The only real difference I personally see is the further limiting of what can be done in each rank.

Kaiden wrote:
D - up to 2 adepts, no mastery (4-6 points)
C - May have 1 mastery at most (5-8 points)
B - Able to have 2 skills mastered(6-10)
A - Now allowed up to 3 skills mastered (7-12)
S - With the time they have had to focus on their skills these shinobi are allowed up to 4 skills mastered (8-14)

While I personally have no problem with this idea of further limiting how far one can push their specialties, as it gives ranks a little more meaning, it does not solve the problem of the Combat Point deficit that is seen between one who starts off as a higher rank and one who starts as a genin. My suggestion, if it's not already in place is that Combat Points could be given as rewards for site events or epic plot threads. Already the title system allows for people to gain extra combat points through great deeds which I find is a fantastic idea. If that could be extended to push people to make plot heavy threads and take part in events and epic fights and such that would be more incentive to push one's character and story telling abilities.

I honestly am in agreement that those who start off as genin should receive some bonus on some level due to the fleshing out of their character but I am in agreement with Fumiko that the deficit seems somewhat staggering when one looks at the numbers. I think by adopting a more developed limitation system like Kaiden suggested and allowing more opportunities for people to gain Combat Points, the deficit can be closed or at least not seem as large.

Though as an afterthought, I am not entirely in agreement about limiting S rank ninja. The other ranks I understand but I personally feel that when one reaches S Rank, they've reached a point where they are beyond simple rank classification. The rank is merely the starting point for someone's power but two S rank ninjas can vary greatly in ability simply due to the fact that there is no rank beyond it. Someone who's been "S Ranked" for decades and has pushed themselves to be stronger should have more ability and combat prowess than someone who just received the rank. But that's my own personal opinion. In any case, it's nice to meet you all.

7CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:40 pm

Jake Haruno

Jake Haruno

Just go sarutobi you get three cs rank ups for nothing :D Genin can have 2 masteries if they be sarutobi :D

8CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:56 pm

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

The pointing system is poorly thought out. CS system is heavily flawed in this aspect. It makes little since that in one rank up a Genin now has the same as a Jounin in skill point. That is absolutely abhorred. The deal is too much is being given to them to actually have a point into being a Jounin. For me it feels like I'm using a derpy character that for some reason is simply suckier then a Genin who ranked up once. As in they have the same mastery capable. It starting to lose the point of being a Jounin in my mind. To me it feels like it should be equally rewarding to do each, if you are going to give Genin a bonus it should be done in a different way, something that isn't so fixed. It really urks me that they give them a huge bonus to something that is a very fixed.

9CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:20 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

2 of the 3 new information is totally irrelevant. 1 what does having a edge mean? That seems totally irrelevant. The one about masterys for Chuunin makes them on a heavier flied then a Jounin. They have the ability more so of a kage. With 8 points and can only have on mastery, thats the same as your average Jounin, as they only have 6. So basically the two rules more or less do nothing. To me it needs to be fixed or altered. You can't use the CS system to give incentive to play Genin, thats way too much of a advantage to give someone. A jounin could have a Ninjutsu Adept, Mastery Tai, while a Jounin level genin could have a Mastery in Tai, Mastery in Nin and a Adept in Genijutsu. Despite if the Jounin has worked harder and done way more missions then the Genin Jounin.

10CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:48 am

CrypticWater

CrypticWater
Konoha Genin
Konoha Genin

Fumiko wrote:2 of the 3 new information is totally irrelevant. 1 what does having a edge mean? That seems totally irrelevant. The one about masterys for Chuunin makes them on a heavier flied then a Jounin. They have the ability more so of a kage. With 8 points and can only have on mastery, thats the same as your average Jounin, as they only have 6. So basically the two rules more or less do nothing. To me it needs to be fixed or altered. You can't use the CS system to give incentive to play Genin, thats way too much of a advantage to give someone. A jounin could have a Ninjutsu Adept, Mastery Tai, while a Jounin level genin could have a Mastery in Tai, Mastery in Nin and a Adept in Genijutsu. Despite if the Jounin has worked harder and done way more missions then the Genin Jounin.

I'm going to respectfully refute your points in that 2 of the 3 of the new information clauses are irrelevant. The first bullet says that genin cannot be a master in any of the combat specialties. This prevents genin from being "Kage" level in any of the disciplines offered. This means that a genin fighting anyone above their level is potentially at a disadvantage should their opponent have mastered one of their disciplines. Mastery level is locked to D rank ninja, essentially as it should be in my opinion.

The second point states that Chuunin can only possess one discipline on the master level. What this does is similar to that of a Genin in that it provides a power ceiling for any and all C ranked ninja so that they aren't ridiculously over powered. Even if they have more CP than a B or A rank ninja, they cannot fully utilize them to master their abilities. They could potentially reach adept in several different specialties but in that sense they are still under powered when facing an opponent of a higher rank who is allowed to master as many disciplines as their points allow. Even as a Jounin against a Chuunin who has ranked up from Genin, you will have enough points to master two specialties if you'd like. The beauty of the CP system is that Ranks do not end up being the end all be all. There is room for combat upset, for the under dog to perform just as well if not better than someone who is objectively of higher rank. A Chuunin can definitely stand up to a Jounin which was not the case in many Naruto RP sites I have seen.

Finally as for the third part. It is there to provide the Objective letter rankings of ninja some form of structure. If you as a Jounin and someone else as a Chuunin square off with combat specialties of identical levels of mastery then you by default will out perform the Chuunin due to the simple fact that you are of higher rank. In this way the three rules do attempt to provide some semblance of structure and realism. It is to keep the lower ranked ninja from simply overpowering the higher ranks.

Now, in my last post I did suggest that CP be offered as event rewards or rewards for well written and epic level topics. Topics where there is indeed a major conflict and a life or death struggle. In my mind it stands to reason that ninja who are faced with such obstacles and survive them should be a bit better in skill than those ninja who do not put their life on the line and do not have experience in dealing with such situations. Already we have a title system that affords extra CP for gaining a title of renown, which are usually gained through completing epic level achievements. If that could be expanded on so that participants of awesome topics could get the occasional CP then it would close the deficit.

I also advocated for Kaiden's solution that more rigidity might be added at each rank to further limit just how powerful one can become at each rank, though I did note that I feel that S ranks should be left alone.

I personally do not see much of the faults in the CP system you seem to be speaking of. Essentially what I see is that there is a deficit between Genin who rank up and those who start as higher ranks. I did provide my suggestion of a solution in that CP could be awarded for well written topics here and there but perhaps the starting amount of CP for starting out at higher ranks could be raised so that the deficit isn't quite so large.

I'd like to note though that the biggest deficit one would see between a Genin who rose through the ranks and someone who started at their position would be 6, assuming that both Genin and Kage were created without a clan and without a primary element. By the time the Genin would reach Kage status, if he ever did, then they would possess 16 CP while the Kage would have 10. This is basically one Mastery and one Adept more than the Kage who was created at that rank. It's quite a bit of a difference but, to me at least, a suitable reward for the person who managed to stick with their character long enough to develop them to a Kage level ninja. If CP were awarded for events and such this deficit surely wouldn't be as big of a deal as it gives people opportunities to gain more points in the hope of making their characters stronger.

The other point I'd like to make is that ranks also have an effect on jutsu chakra cost. The higher your rank the less it costs to use higher ranked jutsu. Along with that is a higher chakra pool, meaning that even with your specialties limited, you are able to fight longer and with more powerful abilities than someone of lower rank. The specialties serve as arsenal choice, granting versatility but they are by no means the end all be all of combat on this site, which is another point I rather like.

I don't see too many faults with the system as it is and it is far better than what I have seen on other sites.

11CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:42 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

So you a agree that a C ranked Genin who ranked up should have been able to learn just as much as a Jounin, the only difference is a Genin can't master stuff. Thats silly, silly. A genin who ranked up once shouldn't be capable of learning just as much as a Jounin who starts a A, point blank period. Thats seriously stupid. If you think thats acceptable....then I don't even know what to say. Now you've totally missed what I'm saying, A Chuunin is capable of learning extra stuff and more so then a Jounin. For me being able to tag another adept is much more useful then having some extra chakra. Not to mention the only one that really matters is having a Master in Tai, at least from my point of view. Being able to use Gen+Nin+Tai versus Tai+Nin at the same levels I'd expect the person with Gen to win every time despite having a chakra disability, assuming they both are equal rpers. Tactically speaking you've basically given the otherside another gun. You've seemed to miss what I was getting at aka not understand that there is no defining factor on what a edge does and its effects, it simply says a edge. What does that even mean? If we fight and use the same jutsu mine is a little tough and beats your just slightly but not enough to have a effect? Like what are we talking here, is this only used on tie breakers? How does this effect hand to hand. The point is there is no wording or well thought out points behind and to me that makes it pointless and up to interpretation by whoever the battle mod is. I don't like calls that are just kinda made up on the spot and not thought out. This is my only real problem with the CS system, I'd like to see being able to go higher then mastery, but other then that I like it. To me how its setup is a big glaring whole. I want to be clear, I'm not saying the CS is bad, I enjoy it alot...its just that this to me seems oddly placed.

12CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:49 am

CrypticWater

CrypticWater
Konoha Genin
Konoha Genin

I don't agree that a Genin should be able to learn as much as a Jounin due to the fact that I do not believe a Genin ever gets as much points as a Jounin. At C rank the Genin is a Chuunin and the points they achieved from the rank up could very well make them on somewhat equal footing with a Jounin. The limitations help keep that gap present though by limiting the number of specialties that can be mastered. So no, I didn't agree with what you tried to make it sound like I was saying but I do agree that the gap between ranks can be close to non-existent.

I understood what you were saying and I was trying to illustrate my points but I've obviously failed in doing so. I don't feel like explaining my side again.

My issue wasn't so much the benefit given to those who chose genin but rather the notion that the CP system was heavily flawed when it seems far more reasonable and flexible than any other system I have seen on other sites.

Just to point out, when they say "edge" on the combat skills system page, I took that as if two ninja were on equal skill rank that the higher ranked ninja would be faster or stronger or whatever in regards to that discipline. I wouldn't say the effects of this "tie breaker" have no effect but that's highly situational. I'll just excuse myself from this topic seeing as the issue has been resolved it seems now that I look at the combat system's page.



In any case, it was nice meeting you all.

13CS Points, Equality for All Empty Re: CS Points, Equality for All Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:05 am

Fumiko

Fumiko
Konoha Jounin
Konoha Jounin

CrypticWater wrote:I don't agree that a Genin should be able to learn as much as a Jounin due to the fact that I do not believe a Genin ever gets as much points as a Jounin. At C rank the Genin is a Chuunin and the points they achieved from the rank up could very well make them on somewhat equal footing with a Jounin. The limitations help keep that gap present though by limiting the number of specialties that can be mastered. So no, I didn't agree with what you tried to make it sound like I was saying but I do agree that the gap between ranks can be close to non-existent.

I understood what you were saying and I was trying to illustrate my points but I've obviously failed in doing so. I don't feel like explaining my side again.

My issue wasn't so much the benefit given to those who chose genin but rather the notion that the CP system was heavily flawed when it seems far more reasonable and flexible than any other system I have seen on other sites.

Just to point out, when they say "edge" on the combat skills system page, I took that as if two ninja were on equal skill rank that the higher ranked ninja would be faster or stronger or whatever in regards to that discipline. I wouldn't say the effects of this "tie breaker" have no effect but that's highly situational. I'll just excuse myself from this topic seeing as the issue has been resolved it seems now that I look at the combat system's page.



In any case, it was nice meeting you all.

We will have much fun with many a topics.

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